Catseroles and kitten mittens.

[urbpan]

Domestic cats are some of the worst invasive species when allowed to roam free and breed. They kill native prey species and compete with native predators. (They also spread diseases like rabies and toxoplasmosis.) In Australia, a place free of placental mammalian predators for millions of years, they are especially bad. That's why they can get away with a feral cat recipe contest while in America we couldn't get a simple hunting season going, on the grounds that it was "cruel and inhumane" (As if somehow hunting feral cats is more cruel than hunting feral pigs, or for that matter, any animal.) Unfortunately for those who would eat cats to extinction in Australia, it turns out they aren't especially good eatin'. Their fur could be a good product to motivate a cat hunt, but you couldn't import it into Europe. Fur, useful as it may be, has fallen out of favor in recent decades, anyway.

What do you think? Any good way to control feral cats that you can think of? Capture/Sterilize/Release is one solution, but still puts cats out in the wild, to kill birds and spread disease. Part of my new job is dealing with feral cats, and not all of them are saved. It seems like a waste to toss a carcass in the trash, or incinerate it, when it's made of useful meat and fur. Or is pragmatism uncalled for with the sensitive issues surrounding beloved species? Do all cats (and horses) deserve decent burials? What to do with the glut of unwanted and pest animals?

Comments

[squid-ink.livejournal.com]

puhlease.. overdevelopment has killed far more animals than any cats.

People are the worst invasive species when allowed to roam free and breed.

[squid-ink.livejournal.com]

..forgot to mention.. in alot of countries (I'm thinking specifically South and Central America, and in the parts of Africa where I've been).. packs of feral dogs are a huge problem, but they kill cattle and other livestock, which threatens a person's livelihood. They're shot but not eaten. (I havent' been to the far east).

besides, where I live.. there really are very few feral cats. They're strays that have been dumped by people, they are domestic animals, not wild. Cats are also not protected by law like dogs are (in terms of licensing, animal control can't pick up stray cats..in our town they do, but by law they can't). That needs to change.


I'd sooner eat a dog than a cat, but I'm vegetarian so I'll pass.

[urbpan.livejournal.com]

Cats are basically a satellite species to humans, and an effect of development. When land is developed, habitat is fragmented, water and air (and light and sound) are polluted, and new predators (cats and dogs) are introduced. The problem of cats can't be separated from humans (and to some extent, vice versa).

Which is more or less true of all invasive species; by definition, they are present due to human activity.

[ziggysinamerica.livejournal.com]

puhlease... Human development is evolution in action, and as evolution goes, you adapt or die out.

Plenty of species eke out an existence alongside us, and others die off, unfortunate as it is. Now that we're more aware of our environmental impact, humanity generally tries harder to not mess things up too much. Regardless, there's no way for humans to kill of all life on this planet excepting major, and I mean MAJOR climate change, sometime akin to the surface of Venus.

Humans are natural creatures, and it is a fallacy to suggest otherwise. There have been mass extinctions throughout the history of this planet, and whether it's caused by a meteorite, massive amounts of oxygen in the air, climate change, or human development, it doesn't change the fact that these things happen and by natural causes.

If fixing the environment is something we should do as self-appointed stewards of nature, then that includes getting rid of feral cats, and if they have to die, so be it.

[gemfyre.livejournal.com]

It's pretty damn easy to tell a fully feral cat from a lost pet in Oz. I have no problem with other people eating the meat from those ferals. I couldn't do it myself because I feel an affinity with cats (for the same reason, if we ever catch a cat while out trapping mammals, I plan to tell the people with me to deal with it while I go elsewhere).

Sterilise and release is handy in some circumstances, because it breaks the breeding cycle, instead of just taking individuals out of the population to be replaced by others. Some research into effective control techniques actually requires cats to be re-released so their behaviour can be studied (same sometimes with foxes - although foxes are obliging - they'll take those 1080 baits).

In New Zealand possum meat and fur is popular because they've become a pest there. You can't be all sentimental when you're talking about thousands of feral creatures out there destroying native species.

[jenhime.livejournal.com]

I have a slightly different view of the feral cat population, I suppose. When I lived in Shreveport, LA, the feral cat colony was the only thing keeping the neighborhood I lived in from being completely overrun by pigeons, rodents and roaches. When the local college removed all the feral cats from its grounds, they had a huge rise in "less desirable" critters -- to the point where it was impossible to walk 5 feet without seeing a roach the size of you thumb (or bigger).

I know that there are a lot of places in the world where feral cats are a bigger pest than some things traditionally viewed as pests, but I have to wonder if (like The Highlands in Shreveport) some of the ecosystems have adjusted to actually need cats for some types of population control.

[donnad.livejournal.com]

As you have probably realized, I am a cat person. I have two cats, Lily (a Maine Coon) and Snowy (a Siamese), both were rescues from a local shelter. Having volunteered at the shelter I have seen many cats come and go and I have to say, the majority of stray cats are not ferals, they are left outside to fend for themselves when an owner moves and the new apartment wont allow pets, or they are unceremoniously dumped on the shelter doorstep after the shelter has told the owner that they are full and just can't take anymore. It's people that are the problem, not the animals.

I saw a mother and six newborn kittens left in a box duct taped shut, on the front steps of the shelter in 20 degree temps a few years ago. There was a bowl of dry kibble in the box with the mother and kittens. The poor things were so cold, if we hadn't found them when we did I'm afraid they would not have survived.

I can imagine that people dump cats around the zoo because of the other animals and the fact that food will be readily available. If a cat will show interest in a human and not immediately run in the other direction it is likely not a feral. Ferals will bolt away and not get anywhere near a human being. A stray cat or a cat that has been abandoned will show interest or even approach a human, they may be apprehensive, but they know that person usually equals food and comfort.

I am a huge advocate of getting pets (both cats and dogs) spayed and neutered. There are too many people that feel that sterilizing a pet ruins them. Not so, it's just the opposite. It makes them a better *pet*. You should know this with dogs, sterilize a male dog and they get less aggressive. The same thing holds for cats. Also with cats spaying and neutering extends their life span, it reduces the occurance of reproductive system cancers in female cats (which are very common) and urinary tract issues (such as crystals/blockages and UTI's) in male cats.

Many states, including Massachusetts have TNR - Trap/Neuter/Release programs for stray and feral cats. This is a good idea. Cats do have a place in the wild. They help to keep the rodent population in check. That is how cats got to this country, they were brought on board ships to keep the rodents under control and jumper ship so to speak when they hit the new world.

As for spreading disease, cats who go through the TNR programs are also tested and innoculated against the more prevalent cat diseases, FIV, FeLV, Rabies etc. If they test positive they are not usually rereleased, but rather kept in a shelter and an attempt is made to adopt them out to families with other cats who test positive. They are isolated from the general cat population and kept with only cats who also test positive. If the disease has progressed too far, they are euthanized.
I would expect that wolves/coyotes, birds and mosquitos probably spread more disease than cats do in the wild.

Now being that I'm also a birder, I really have some mixed feelings about the fact that they also hunt birds, (the feral that lives under my porch got a mourning dove on my front lawn the other day... feathers everywhere.) But it is part of a cats nature to hunt and it is a part of the circle of life so I accept it.

My two cats are just too lazy to hunt, although any flies that get into my house do not stand a chance against my two great white hunters.

I don't like the idea of euthanizing a cat for no reason or because you just don't want it anymore. If a cat is ill with little chance of recovery then I feel it is the humane thing to do. Our previous two cats both ended up being euthanized. Midnight had a stroke (she was 18 YO) and ended up paralyzed with no chance of rehabilitation. and Keisha (she was 16YO) had just hours left and was in much pain from severe kidney disease. We had both cremated and they are in urns on a shelf in my curio cabinet. Maybe someday we will spread the ashes in a place that we feel is right, but for now they are still around. When I was a kid, we buried our pets in my mother's back yard. It was just the thing to do. Now I see no problem with cremation.

yeeps, didn't realize I was going on for so long...

[urbpan.livejournal.com]

I think the cat problem around the zoo has less to do with deliberate drop-off (though undoubtedly there is some of that--and of more species than just cats) than it does with local residents keeping 'outdoor' cats. The outdoor cats, many if not most unaltered, breed and seed populations of feral cats. When a cat is trapped at the zoo, a vet or a vet tech decides if it is a stray or a feral (based on temperament and conditions--or dead giveaways like a flea collar). Strays are brought to the shelter, ferals are euthanized.

Disease is the main concern when it comes to cats at the zoo. Collection animals are at risk from toxoplasmosis. Rabies is also a risk, but probably less so from cats than from skunks and raccoons (which also fall under our pest control program).

My personal problems with cremation (for myself, other humans, and animals) are that it deprives the ecosystem of a body that has grown by feeding on it, it creates air pollution, and (in the case of animals) it's expensive. It's also the only option in most cases for animals.

[teratologist.livejournal.com]

Naturally we must introduce larger predators that eat cats! That always works so well.

Snark aside, I personally think that the decision to keep or kill feral cats needs to be weighed carefully, not only against the number of native animals killed by no-feral-cats, but by the number of native animals killed by other means of pest control. I don't have any numbers on this, but it may be that in some instances cats (especially well-fed ones who stick close to buildings) have less of an effect, ultimately, on native species per non-native pest killed than poisons or kids with bb guns or what have you. In other cases, obviously, this is not the case, and in those cases cats should of course be eliminated.

But I can't get behind using them for meat and fur. With dogs in the U.S., the fact is that the places where the population of feral dogs has come under control are identical with the places, not where the dogs are viewed pragmatically, but where they are viewed extremely sentimentally. Dogs viewed as 'members of the family' are more frequently spayed and neutered, more frequently kept in their owners' sight where they can't easily get at wildlife, and less often turned loose because they have become inconvenient than dogs regarded as tools. We should be encouraging people to regard their cats in the same light, and allowing them to purchase bits of feral cats while fostering that attitude towards domestic ones (including domestics that have strayed, since we definitely want people to be inclined to pick those up off the street before they breed ferals,) is, I think, expecting a little too much compartmentalization to expect even from the American mind.

[urbpan.livejournal.com]

Just convincing people that keeping cats indoors is in the cats' interest is expecting too much, it seems.

[meryddian.livejournal.com]

Australia is a bit unique. It has been so long cut off from other continents that when settlers finally started arriving there, they found a land full of hostile animals/insects/other strange things.

Some of the early settlers had the brilliant solution of introducing rabbits Australia. Talk about invasive species.... then once the rabbits got out of control, guess what? They tried introducing other species to get the rabbits under control. Really, one of the most damaging and invasive species is man.

So now Australia is choked with rabbits, apparently feral cats, and oh yes, let's not forget a native species there, kangaroos. We regard kangaroos as "cute", but the Aussies consider them an annoyance, and it's pretty much open season on kangas. Incidentally, kangaroo is good eating. Excellent eating, in fact - they have no fat content in the meat, so if properly prepared, kangaroo meat is tender and succulent. How do I know? I had some when I was in Australia. It was delicious.

I've also eaten snake, possum, squirrel, rabbit, venison, bear, pigeon, emu, shark, jellyfish, alligator, ostrich, and other interesting species. I will never knowingly consume dog or cat, however, because they are "companion" species and in our society, there is a taboo around their consumption. (Other societies, obviously no such taboo exists; you can still find areas such as parts of China where dogs and cats are considered quite a delicacy.)

Cats and dogs have both been domesticated by man for so long that we cannot imagine living without them, whether or not we regard them as "pets". Cats are useful because they hunt out rodents and other truly disgusting species ("disgusting" from the viewpoint of "capable of spreading disease") who would otherwise breed and multiply (ie. rats) and potentially overwhelm us. Dogs are useful because they can help guard us, or hunt with/for us.

Dogs carry disease too. The whole 'carry disease' argument is a bit weak, because every mammalian species is capable of carrying *something* into a "virgin soil" environment. The Conquistadors, for example - they brought pigs with them. Pigs are capable of carrying the same diseases as humans, so, had the humans had the "quarantine" of a month or more at sea to allow viruses to die out, perhaps European infections such as smallpox and influenza would not have wiped out much of the native American population. Instead, man and beast kept the viruses alive between them - the explorers, of course, being very tolerant of the disease, having grown up with them - and active, live viruses were carried into the virgin soil environment of North America. Yay, explorers; wtg.

I'm not saying that Australia doesn't have a feral cat population, but it's also not their only animal issue. So much of their land is just too wide open to possibly even begin to put some of their "pest" species in check.

Catch-and-release has been shown to be effective in cities. That's an important first step, because when feral colonies get too full, they of course split off and form new colonies.

Education is also incredibly important; there are way too many people out there who are ignorant - or refuse to accept - about the importance of neutering one's pet - they're more docile, easier to control, more compliant, and live longer, healthier lives. Neither cats nor dogs have the memory facilities to know that they're missing anything once they are neutered.

Here in Chicago, we have an organization called PAWS Chicago. Their goal is to eliminate euthanasia in the Chicago area through a combination of education, outreach, working with other no-kill shelters, and other initiatives. In the ten years the program has been operating, they have helped the euthanasia rate in Chicago go from over 42,500 to 19,700 last year. They're extremely visible in Chicago, and they have a clinic available in one of the poorest areas of the city that offers low-cost neuter/spaying, not to mention educational outreach into schools all around the city.

[urbpan.livejournal.com]

I will never knowingly consume dog or cat, however, because they are "companion" species and in our society, there is a taboo around their consumption.

Are you saying that you obey taboos, always? There are taboos against eating a lot of the other animals you list--our relatively recent taboo against eating pigeons, and the ancient taboo against reptiles. I don't mean to be confrontational (I'd hate to lose another reader over this post), but we all pick and choose what taboos to obey. Why do you happen to obey this one (against eating dogs and cats)?

[gemfyre.livejournal.com]

We regard kangaroos as "cute", but the Aussies consider them an annoyance, and it's pretty much open season on kangas.

Not the case. Kangaroo populations have blown out of proportion due to agriculture here. Clearing of land to create pasture and sticking water troughs everywhere suits the roos to a tea. And it's not open season - roos are very carefully managed. All shooters must have a permit and only a certain number are to be taken to maintain a sustainable population.

And I haven't yet met one person from America yet who truly understands the feral cat problem in Australia. I adore cats too, but in Australia we're talking animals that were possibly here BEFORE white settlement (some research has shown, and they have no idea how they got here). These are animals that live in the middle of the desert and have done so for at least a century now - miles away from any humans. They're like small tigers, they cannot be redomesticated, they're huge and they're nasty.

In W.A. foxes have been brought under control using 1080 baits, but cats are a bit more of a challenge because they don't take baits as easily. There's also a phenomonen called 'mesopredator release'. Pretty much, once you get rid of foxes, cat numbers explode, so a solution to this issue also needs to be sorted out.

Sure, all of these problems were initially caused by humans. But if you take away just the humans, the problems will still remain because foxes and cats get along quite happily without us. As long as there are small, native animals to eat.

[kryptyd.livejournal.com]

I think feral cats should be gotten rid of where they pose a serious risk to native species, but like Leela in that penguin episode of Futurama, I get suspicious and uncomfortable when the people doing it look like they're enjoying themselves! I saw an Australian guy on the telly who had a cat-hunting hat made out of an entire cat! But squeamishness aside I do think that some use should be made of the bodies. I don't think anyone would ever convince a posh person or a rapper that a catfur coat was a status symbol!

In Holland they use roadkill dogs and cats in petfood. I wonder if that poses the risk of CJD? Oh and you mentioned horses. They eat horse there.

It's definitely hypocritical to treat two species in a different manner just because one of them has sentimental value. I can't talk though because I am guilty of hypocrisy myself. I think eating a dog is no worse that eating a pig or cow, but when it comes to whales I can never consider killing them acceptable, even if they are from a species (like minke) who are thriving.

[urbpan.livejournal.com]

Status is funny. I think it's pretty hilarious when I see a status-seeker wearing a raccoon coat. Raccoons are a half-notch above rats to most north americans. (And, while trying to find a picture of a rapper wearing raccoon, I discovered that diddy got in trouble because some of the furs selling under his label were dog.)

[roaming.livejournal.com]

"Not all" are saved? I'd be surprised if you could save 1% of them. Ferals don't cooperate well with being saved.

Unwanted pest animals? You mean, like, those humans who greedily destroy their own environment despite having the superior-to- lesser-forms-of-life intelligence to make different choices rather than just reacting to survival instincts in the moment?

Once an animal is dead it IS a waste to not find a use for the remains, whether in clothing or food (or even fertilizer). The problem is that if a use is acceptable after death, it leads to the wanton and greedy and often cruelly painful extermination of the animal in order to supply the use/demand. Thus the prohibitions. Not that it helps totally, there's always a black market.

I support a number of TNR feral groups, because stopping the explosion of more litters exponentially is a critical first step, until we come up with something better. But they get me impatiently annoyed when they go to ridiculous and expensive lengths to keep an ailing or injured feral alive rather than euthanize it. Death isn't the worst thing: a hard life fraught with disease and accidents (and cruel humans) is.

Beloved pets vs. pragmatism: Once you've bonded with an individual animal, it isn't a hard next step to envision any other animal as being an individual creature one could become a bonded companion to/vice versa. But, like individuals humans, there's individuals one can and individuals one can't get close to. Is the criteria to be "If I can love this individual ______ (cat, pig, horse, monkey, rat, chicken) therefore it deserves to live, and live well, and everyone else should respect it as I do -- and all it's brethren"? That seems as reasonable (pragmatic?) a criteria as any other.

I don't think there will ever be a definitive, totally pragmatic answer to this question/problem as long as humans find themselves having emotional attachments to ANY non-human creature. Just as dog lovers won't get why cat lovers prefer cats and vice versa. :-)

[brush-rat.livejournal.com]

Whoee. Look what you started. I think the problem is a non issue out here, because the weather precludes cats and dogs from staying feral long. It's also mostly a set of walled suburbs, so I think the idea of letting your animals roam loose just isn't practical. The few loose animals I see in our neighborhood are rare enough that we know them all and everyone knows the house they actually live at. The only thing close to a feral cat I see out here is an old female with a missing tail, who I've taken to calling Ahab, but I think she has a home. She hunts the pigeons in my back yard and on one memorable occasion, a rat. We watched that hunt from out kitchen window.

I suspect we'll come around to the idea of keeping pets inside, or at least in our yards fairly soon, just like we came around to using seat belts. There's going to be some growing pains during the transition, though.

As for the animals at the zoo, how come you don't feed the dead to your big predators?

[urbpan.livejournal.com]

Zoo animals aren't fed the remains of their fallen brothers in the collection for a few reasons:

1. Dead zoo animals are necropsied under non-sterile conditions, (meaning that you are left with a dismembered carcass that could harbor disease) and there is nothing like a butcher's freezer to store a rack of zebra, say.

2. Zoo diets are pretty strictly codified in husbandry manuals, and deviating from them is frowned upon.

3. Zoos that have experimented with feeding off one part of the collection to another have found themselves facing negative publicity. This, I suspect, is the main reason--zoo guests become attached to individual animals, and if word got out that Fluffy was consumed by Leo, revenue-affecting publicity would result.

Plus, as you can see from discussions above, sentiment trumps logic, always.

[dragonwrites.livejournal.com]

the answer is more coyotes...

[urbpan.livejournal.com]

That might make more of a problem for our Australian friends, especially once those coy-dingoes start roaming the outback!

[calypso72]

I say we capture and sterilize all cat owners with un-neutered cats and summarily kill any cat breeders.

For that matter, do the same with dog owners of the same description.

[lizblackdog.livejournal.com]

IAWTC.

[deederange.livejournal.com]

I just had to deal with this very issue on Friday. A feral cat had a litter of kittens in our yard sometime in the last few weeks. I have started trying to trap the kittens. InitiallyI had grand designs of saving them, but upon taking the first kitten to the humane society, I was told that he was really sick (his eyes were all goopy so I kind of suspected that) and they said that I could pay to take him to my own vet or they would have to put him down. I just wasn't willing to risk my own cats health for that of a feral. I felt awful about it, but the poor kitten was obviously very ill anyway, if I had left him outside he would have just died a slow death. I am still trying to catch the rest of the kittens and the mother cat, who most likely passed disease onto the kittens.

The only solution to the problem is to stop it at the source. Ban the sale of ANY pet that has not been neutered/spayed. Severely restrict or highly tax ANY animal breeder (dogs, cats, exotics) and have the money go into programs to shelter all the unwanted results of thier idiocy. Also, chip ALL pets before they are sold/adopted. If the animal is found in the wild, the owner is tracked and fined in a massive way. (Again, not just cats, but dogs and exotics -- there are huge problems in FL with people buying exotic snakes, lizards, etc and releasing them when they get bored. )

Sorry to ramble, this issue hits close to home today, I'm still really sad and angry about the poor kitten.

[urbpan.livejournal.com]

I feel for you. That's a sucky situation.

Yeah, and the evereglades really needed a population of Burmese pythons.

One of my fantasy jobs is animal control in a place like florida, catching wayward monitors and stuff.

[bloolark.livejournal.com]

TNVR and colony management is, in my opinion, one half of the vital job of dealing with feral cats, with the other half being enforced cat leash laws.

TNVR is Trap-Neuter-Vaccinate-Release, which, along with colony management, sets up a situation where you have a small group of non-breeding, non-fighting, non-diseased cats that you feed, which then prevent other groups of breeding/fighting/eating other animals cats from moving into the area.

http://www.straypetadvocacy.org/html/predation_studies_reviewed.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=16603400&dopt=Citation
http://www.feralcatfocus.com/Eradication_/eradication_.html -- this is the most straight forward one.

As was pointed out in the first link, the predation style of cats is far better for small mammals than it is for birds.

[stonelizard.livejournal.com]

I partially agree with killing of ferals to protect native wildlife - though the cat lover in me is against it, I have a general no go opinion on invasive species, especially when they are as detrimental to wildlife as cats are.
I must be one of the few people in the world who has never actually (knowingly) seen a feral cat.
As for my own cat - indoors only, or allowed in the garden for company. No way am I going to allow the death of native species as sport for my spoilt - enough - as - it - is monster.

[principito.livejournal.com]

Haven't been able to read all 50 something replies... but I think: If cats are not edible to humans, and fur cannot be used due to humane reasons, why don't they use their meat to feed other animals?

PS (for those who replied negatively) I am a cat person, own 8 cats and one Dacshound, but also worked at a humane society where they had to put to sleep over 100 animals a day, and all those carcasses where incinerated. And those who oppose killing have to reflect that humans where the cause of this problem. Cats are domestic animals, created by humans thousands of years ago, and do not belong in the wild. Domestic cats should be neutered in order to help solve the problem. Unnutered animals released in the wild in a couple of years turn into thousands of homeless animals.