The Urban Pantheist

I've read/heard birds need to eat anywhere from 10 to 50% of their body weight to survive (depending on the bird and the weather: more in winter, of course, to generate more heat). So how exactly do they survive? (Me, I like those little house sparrows. And chipmunks. I even like pigeons: they coo so nicely. Don't like their dung, of course, though. But they can't help it: we all poop.)

(I've got a birdfeeder in my yard: no tossing bread on snow for me. But good to know that if I don't keep it totally stocked religiously every day they won't perish overnight.)

Edited Date: 2010-01-03 03:21 pm (UTC)

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by eating the food that is everywhere for them, as they've been doing every winter since they existed.

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call me dumb, but what food exactly is that? (god a list?) I thought that most of the shrubs that carry winter berries for them have been replaced in cities and suburbs by pretty but useless shrubs: there is no natural ecological balance anymore. And I don't see food buried under that snow. Maybe they do. . .

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house sparrows eat anything.

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call me dumber, can anyone define "anything"? Poop? Grass? Snow? I'm just looking out there and listing what can be seen. I'm sure the birds can see more than I do, but I'm also pretty sure I know what's in my yard: Grass. Ivy. Pine trees. Dead morning glories. Dried spirea. All buried in snow. So if birds need extra calories in winter, that doesn't seem like the best meal.

Today my yard has 4 blackbirds so huge they look like ravens: cardinals; woodpeckers; bluejays; and the requisite pigeons and sparrows. :-) Last week there was a circling hawk. And thus one less squirrel. Probably the one with the broken in half tail.

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poop, yes, grass (well, seeds). pine trees, ivy, morning glories - all have seeds.

bird feeders make great fast food restaurants for hawks.

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well, the hawks gotta eat too. Circle of nature and all that.

I'll have to look closer at my ivy and my pine tress: I see no ivy seeds and pine cones are a bit big to eat. :-) The grass is all covered. I know morning glory seeds are poisonous -- or at least hallucinogenic: some stores won't sell them anymore, and definitely not to teens who try to use them to get high. So I was told at the last store I tried to buy them that didn't carry them anymore. Sheesh.

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shadefell.livejournal.com

pine cones are a bit big to eat

The seeds are inside the pine cone, IIRC.

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i don't think the birds trip when they eat them! the seeds are nestled in the cones. squirrels eat acorns, but they're very messy about it and leave lots behind for birds.

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lj logged me out, whoops!

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mizdarkgirl.livejournal.com

Well... I am lucky enough to live near native Hemlocks trees. You could say most of these were felled for tanning industry. But they are still here! And many are by the trolley tracks.

In the same area? There is still blueberry bushes and spicebushes. We don't eat spicebush berries but they are still there. Same goes for Pepperbush.

All those stone walls you see in the woods in Massachusetts and New Hampshire? It meant that there were NO woods there even seventy years ago. See http://northernwoodlands.org/articles/article/rust_in_peace/ for supporting document or Detroit neighborhoods http://www.detroitblog.org/?p=405. Nature will reclaim.

And nature will evolve. Many invasive species are spread because the birds and other creatures eat them and spread the seeds. Purple loosestrife, burning bush, Oriental bittersweet vine, etc.. (See http://www.newfs.org/protect/invasive-plants/photo-gallery) were brought in by landscapers. So not useless to the birds but certainly harmful to native plants. (Granted when I see bittersweet in the winter and spring, I yank it off trees but that is another story... )

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I like them all, too, don't get me wrong. Of course, I also appreciate rats and cockroaches. I'm able to be fascinated by them and enjoy them at the same time as I'm trying to control them and prevent the problems they cause.

Native birds have adapted to the climate we have here. There are plenty of overwintering fruit, seeds, and insects (you'll see nuthatches picking cocoons from the furrows of bark) to eat. In the city there are more options, not just birdfeeders but the many ornamental plants and trees that provide fruit.

Another way birds survive the winter is by conserving energy by not moving around so much. And of course, the weakest and dumbest die, allowing the better adapted birds to pass on their genes.

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oh, I didn't think you were really dissing them. Just edumacating those of us who are city bred and therefore clue-free about nature. Even in the city. :-)

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teratologist.livejournal.com

"Meant" to survive is an interesting term. Feeders have been implicated in range expansions for e.g. Northern Cardinals; if all seed feeders went away, they'd probably experience a range contraction. Sure, you could argue that all range expansions due to human influence on the landscape are all not "meant" to be but at that point you're arguing for an unsustainable vision of untouched nature in my opinion. S'not gonna happen and it's not necessarily desirable.

Plus, there's value in giving people opportunities to view wildlife in a calm, casual, non-consumptive manner in order to develop their appreciation of environmental issues, and winter bird feeding does that.

And all human activities feed rats. They're part of us.

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wirrrn.livejournal.com

Teratologist- is that a Turtle Frog or an Indian Purple Frog in your icon?!

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ozreison.livejournal.com

There is a river near my work where a water inversion brought old bread to the surface and caused the deaths of many ducks from botulism. In spite of signs and PSAs everywhere, people in the area still throw bread in the water on a regular basis because it is inconceivable to many people that a species that survived without human assistance for milennia could ever survive without it now. And then they will wonder about the dead birds after the next inversion...

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I wish people would get over this BREAD tossing thing! Worst thing for them. Animals don't eat caloricly empty carbs. It's useless for them, but of course they don't know any better so they go on automatic pilot if it's edible.

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Out here in the middle of nowhere, I have several bird feeders, A seed feeder, a thistle feeder, and two suet feeders. The birds we see are mostly Woodpeckers, Tufted Titmice, Nuthatches, Goldfinches, the occasional Bluejay, and Juncos, Right now we have few sparrows, absolutely no mourning doves or cardinals, we see them more when the weather is warmer. I have seen the occasional Red-Tail in the backyard as well. And I have never seen a pigeon or starling on my feeders, not even in the summer. We did get a couple chickens once that escaped from my neighbors coop. They enjoyed the seeds the wild birds drop on the ground at the base of the feeders until their owner came and herded them back to the coop.

We get a few squirrels that clean up around the base of the feeders but the feral cat colony in the backyard keeps the chipmunks and other vermin at bay. Even the racoons that are often around haven't been for a while. I had to start bringing the feral cats food in after dark because the racoons were getting brave and coming right up on the porch to get to it. They don't bother it during the day, only after dusk. I'm sure they'll be back come spring.

I live in the middle of farm country, not in the city and although there are likely rats around the barns nearby, I haven't seen any near here.

Edited Date: 2010-01-03 04:07 pm (UTC)

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Every year for the past 20 years raccoon moms have been bringing their kits to my yard because I (confession) feed them. I KNOW, I know: bad to do. But if I don't, theyjust go nuts in the garbage and the dumpsters down on Mass Ave. (And maybe they do that TOO, in addition to my leaving them some dry cat food and usually some peanuts, and the occasional meat leftover.) Anyway, everyone told me I'd be overrun with raccoons. Hasn't happened. I start out with 8 in the spring (2 big'un, 6 kits), and by fall the more aggressive have run off the others and I'm back to 2 or 3. Which seems unfair since I leave enough food for them all, but I guess that's "nature" and the others are run off to find their own, not so bountiful, territory.

Right now they're not coming out much, maybe once a week. Odd since they have these thick furry coats, you'd think bad weather wouldn't faze them. I think they've nested under the tool shed in the yard. I suspect they're sharing it with the possum and the two huge skunks who also come 'round every spring through fall. :-) It's like Wild Kingdom out there. :-) Fascinating for a New York City bred transplant like me, now living in a Massachusetts town between Csmbridge and Lexington.

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Well, I don't intentionally feed the racoons, but occasionally they get into the cats food.
I inherited the feral colony when I moved here and have just been taking care of them, getting them neutered and vaccinated when I can and was even able to socialize one enough that she's now indoors as part of my brood. I have so far been able to stop the breeding and the colony has stabilized until some loser dumps another unspayed pregnant female off nearby (I live at the end of a dead end street that backs up to a cow/dairy farm) and we start the process all over again.

I'm out in the middle of nowhere, Pepperell MA., right on the NH state line. We are in farm country.

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oh, the TNR thing is definitely a calling: an expensive and work-heavy one, with little (or no) time for vacations. I admire you for it, even if you had no choice. Though you could have chosen to ignore them.

Damn that dumping thing people do. I want to beat it out of them.

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PS. The feral cats ocasionally hunt the birds, but I keep them well fed so it's rare they have interest in them for food. In the last 2+ years I can count on one hand the number of times I have found bird remains/feathers in the yard. The remains chipmunks and mice on the other hand I see every few weeks. They aren't eating them though, just leaving them for me, sort of a "thanks for keeping us well fed, here's a gift for you."

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hhw

I'm on the way to nowhere, near farms but not quite rural, and fully admit that I stock bird feeders for my own entertainment and that of my indoor-only cat.

I haven't seen any chipmunks for over a month (I saw many in the fall), but the squirrels are definitely enjoying my self-indulgence.

I've seen pigeons and starlings in the area but not at my feeders. Very different from my experience in Portland, OR, where starlings would finish a suet block within a few hours of discovery. I've also been pleasantly surprised by the very low numbers of European sparrows and house finches here -- many days I don't see either.

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Oh, of course, Kitty TV, Part of the reason I got the feeders in the first place.

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wirrrn.livejournal.com

Well, over here we don't have house sparrows, deer mice, chimpunks Lyme Disease or snow either, so I guess the question is moot *g*.

I do hang up a seed-bell and have a birdbath*, but that just attracts local wild birds, particularly 28 Parrots, Pink & Grey Galahs and Wattlebirds

*we keep our de-sexed and chipped cat in at night...

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whatisbiscuits.livejournal.com

I put bird seed out in feeders because I like to help the birds out, since we've destroyed most of their natural habitat. House sparrows are a native species here in the UK, and they aren't doing so well at the moment - a population decline of around 60% since the 1970s. The only pigeons I've ever seen in the garden are cooing wood pigeons, which I have a soft spot for anyway.

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It's a weird paradox that native house sparrows and rock pigeons in Europe are having a difficult time, while their urban descendants overseas are thriving to the point of becoming pests.

Wood pigeons are cool! When I saw them in London I was amazed.

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whatisbiscuits.livejournal.com

The rock pigeons here seem to be doing ok, except that they all have injured stumpy feet from getting them caught up in our rubbish. Wood pigeons are great, they taste nice too.

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rinalia.livejournal.com

*shrug* I'm not putting away the bird feeder just because you're feeling cranky. :) I like the birds. Sure, they'll survive fine w/o the feeder, but that's hardly the reason for having the feeders around.

(Our resident rat is named Harvey. No mice, chipmunks, squirrels, though).

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I wouldn't be too worried about the winter survival of birds in Vacaville, either. And I'm not recommending that people remove their feeders altogether, I just want them to understand the consequences of dumping food on the ground.

Don't catch plague from Harvey.

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mrs-picasso.livejournal.com

You are right. My neighbor hangs out a pot of birdseed only a couple of feet off the ground. One morning I went out to get the paper and there was a huge rat in it, feasting away!

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mas69ter.livejournal.com

I don't feed birds. I do, however, personally hand over peanuts to the backyard squirrel as he is cute and actually comes up to take the peanuts from me.

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propaddict.livejournal.com

So, if someone wanted to buy a responsible bird feeder, which would be the best? I imagine one of the squirrel-proof ones, hung well off the ground?

I want to attract lots of birds and have them sedentary enough for good pictures, but would prefer not to encourage the local squirrel or mongoose population.

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Research what birds you would like to attract, and what it is that they eat. As you know, most of the birds you are likely to see are non-natives. The Hawaii Audubon Society seems like a logical resource for you to implement.

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tsunami-ryuu.livejournal.com

I have one of those upside-down finch feeders to feed the goldfinches and deter sparrows. Except that the damn house sparrows have learned to do flips on the perches, grabbing one niger thistle seed on every rotation. Truly tenacious little monsters. I can't imagine that it's at all energy efficient for the sparrows to expend so much effort and get only one seed on each turn, but that hasn't stopped them.

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That's one of the things that makes house sparrows (and rats, for that matter) such fascinating animals to observe. They are so adaptable and persistent! You should make a video of the acrobatic sparrows and send it to the manufacturers of the feeder to show them their design needs improving. (Also share it with us, it sounds fun!)

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tsunami-ryuu.livejournal.com

Will do! They rob the finches nearly every day, so it shouldn't be too hard for me to get footage.

I find invasives fascinating for the same reasons. What has always struck me as interesting about House Sparrows is how sharply their success stands in contrast to their cousins, the Eurasian Tree Sparrows. Apparently both were introduced to the US around the same time in the same region (St. Louis area), but only the House Sparrows succeeded in expanding their range to include the entire continental US. Eurasian Tree Sparrows are still restricted to St. Louis and surrounding areas, and they don't seem to be expanding their range much if at all.

I lived in St. Louis for four years during college and volunteered at a local songbird rehab clinic. We received both baby House Sparrows and baby Eurasian Tree Sparrows, and despite how similar the two species look, there's a marked difference in the behavior of the babies. The House Sparrows are pushier and louder as they fledge, whereas the Eurasian Tree Sparrows become skittish to the point of refusing to take the syringe unless there are a lot of other birds in the cage with them. I have to wonder if differences in behavior, especially feeding behavior and competitive behavior, have led to the differential success of the two species in the US.

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g-weir.livejournal.com

Hey Betty White: every time you leave a cow tethered to the dock, YOU ARE FEEDING THE 30 FOOT CROCODILE.

An invasive species that will eventually eat a helicopter containing Oliver Platt.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0139414/

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Thanks for bringing us back to Earth, there, Gordon. Also, I recently watched Alligator from 1980. Not quite as funny as Lake Placid, but it also didn't waste time trying to make Bill Pullman into a romantic hero.

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g-weir.livejournal.com

The gator smashing the limo with its tail for no reason: priceless.

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ndozo.livejournal.com

So feeding birds is bad? There's enough natural food for the birds that would naturally occur around here if everyone wasn't planting "ornamentals"? I don't think so. I try to plant stuff they like and leave habitat intact but there are a lot of species that I used to see often and now seldom or never see. But what I can't figure out is why there are flocks of robins still hanging around SW Ct now. This is the first winter that I can recall them staying.

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